From: Dominican Republic
Despicable way to conduct business and maximize profits. Shame on the sin verguenzas.
Written by: riosm, 20 Aug 2012 4:56 PM
From: United States
Juansantodomingo
Talk about abuse, I totally agree....
Written by: BASTA, 20 Aug 2012 5:07 PM
From: Dominican Republic, =Ghetto/Legalize Drugs/Free abortions for all
a miracle; you Dominican swine, die on the cross!
Written by: Pedrin, 20 Aug 2012 5:30 PM
From: United States
You have to be a real lowlife to have people working for you,(breaking their backs) And then you renege on your obligation and refuse to pay them, or call immigration on them. I'm glad these workers are fighting for what is theirs. You can bet your life that the crooks that refuse to pay these workers consider themselves good catholics, BULLSHIT what they are is HYPOCRITES.
From: United States, Earth
I can't blame those Haitians for being upset and wanting their money. Its not like they are getting paid a ton of money for that hard work. HOWEVER, violence is not the answer. If they want to get someones attention they should take it out on the construction site, stop the work flow etc. But don't inflict damage on a persons life, its not worth it. But those Engineers and Contractors who knowingly cheat, steal and try to manipulate people like that should be thrown right into a jail cell. This is a PERFECT example of how you have people demeaning Haitians for EVERYTHING they do, but have little to say when somebody is clearly taking advantage of them. If you want to babble all day about patria and say "pa fuera con los haitianos" then go right ahead. But be respectable enough to hire DOMINICAN workers. If you want to tough immigration laws and reform, then go right ahead. But apply that toughness across the board. Who HIRED those Haitians to begin with?? Exactly...
Written by: okian, 20 Aug 2012 5:58 PM
From: United States
I too support the Haitian workers. The speaks volumes of the general mentality of so many there.
Written by: vacanos, 20 Aug 2012 6:16 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
I dont wish anybody harm. But if there is a case where someone need a lesson or a warning. This is the case. Because of these worm gusano paying illegal Haitians slaves wages is the main reason why we are being invaded. Arconim and the many other builder need to be set as an example. I will wait the new government of Danilo Medina approach toward this problem.
Written by: dannyOO, 20 Aug 2012 6:23 PM
From: United States, syosset, key west, santo domingo AND NOW THE GLOBE TROTTER
We need to get out of the dr,and come back to haiti to work in the reconstruction of our own country.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Aug 2012 6:37 PM
From: United States, NYC
by: BernardJeanPierre,
"I can't blame those Haitians for being upset and wanting their money. Its not like they are getting paid a ton of money for that hard work. HOWEVER, violence is not the answer. If they want to get someones attention they should take it out on the construction site, stop the work flow etc. But don't inflict damage on a persons life, its not worth it. But those Engineers and Contractors who knowingly cheat, steal and try to manipulate people like that should be thrown right into a jail cell."
by: vacanos,
"I dont wish anybody harm. But if there is a case where someone need a lesson or a warning. This is the case. Because of these worm gusano paying illegal Haitians slaves wages is the main reason why we are being invaded. Arconim and the many other builder need to be set as an example. I will wait the new government of Danilo Medina approach toward this problem."
Agree 100% with your comments above.
Written by: Atabey, 20 Aug 2012 6:42 PM
From: United States, NYC
All job sites must have a documented labor agreement that is transparent. Perhaps require that the document be posted on the job site. All workers must have either a Workers Permit or some other, in the case of Dominican workers, cedula requirement. And fined firms that break the law. Require that these firms be Identified if they fail to follow the law as in three fines and your firm's name goes on the National and local list.
Let's end this B.S. that causes so much bad publicity and shame upon the DR worldwide. Let the private contractors and firms who have heretofore adhered to nothing more than the bottom line take the hits.
Written by: vacanos, 20 Aug 2012 7:05 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Atabey "All job sites must have a documented labor agreement that is transparent. Perhaps require that the document be posted on the job site. All workers must have either a Workers Permit or some other, in the case of Dominican workers, cedula requirement. And fined firms that break the law. Require that these firms be Identified if they fail to follow the law as in three fines and your firm's name goes on the National and local list."
Atabey, there is a law that limit the Haitians laborer to 15% of the entire workforce and the rest need to be of Dominican workers. These unscrupulous builders need to be put in their place. In the past these parasites would had been dealt accordingly. One charge would had stick on the wall, treason (TRAICION A LA PATRIA).
Written by: Atabey, 20 Aug 2012 7:43 PM
From: United States, NYC
I agree.
Let them take the hits. If they can't follow the law and want to squeeze out the last drop of ill-gains then at least accept the blame and shame. Time to identify them and make them walk the plank.
From: United States, Earth
Additionally, although I certainly do not consider Haitians as "invaders" nor would I use that term to describe anyone, especially considering the HUGE presence of people from different Countries in the US looking for a better quality of life as well. But if it isn't clear to people yet, if Haitians can't find jobs in the Dominican Republic, less of them would be there. Its simple logic. The theory that they are obsessed with taking over the Country "again" is just self-imposed ignorance of the part of some Dominicans. If that were true WHY are there so many in the States as well? Its about OPPORTUNITY nothing else. Your average Haitian could care LESS about taking over anything, all they want is make enough to eat themselves and then maybe, just maybe have enought to share with their families. As long as people entertain those ancient concepts they will continue to be unable to stop the bleeding because they don't even know where the 'wound' is! This article is a wake up call.
From: United States, Earth
Additionally, although I certainly do not consider Haitians as "invaders" nor would I use that term to describe anyone, especially considering the HUGE presence of people from different Countries in the US looking for a better quality of life as well. But if it isn't clear to people yet, if Haitians can't find jobs in the Dominican Republic, less of them would be there. Its simple logic. The theory that they are obsessed with taking over the Country "again" is just self-imposed ignorance of the part of some Dominicans. If that were true WHY are there so many in the States as well? Its about OPPORTUNITY nothing else. Your average Haitian could care LESS about taking over anything, all they want is make enough to eat themselves and then maybe, just maybe have enought to share with their families. As long as people entertain those ancient concepts they will continue to be unable to stop the bleeding because they don't even know where the 'wound' is! This article is a wake up call.
Written by: generoso, 20 Aug 2012 8:21 PM
From: Dominican Republic, United States
Bernard
I am dizzy just reading all the garbage you wrote. DO NOT compare the US to the DR please.
Haitians are trespassing and are here illegally, fact, that makes them invaders.
The DR can not be the solution to the Haitian problem, if the Haitians are hungry so are the Dominicans, that they are displacing by elbowing their place in the DR food table, bringing nothing in exchange.
Why don't the Haitians go to Cuba right next door to them?
Haitians historically have been a violent and primitive race, and they always brought their hate and violence with them, in the many occasions they have trespassed onto the DR.
From: United States
Bernard as much as I consider you a quality individual, as much as I admire and respect your intelligence, your high quality posts, I am totallly flabbergasted that for such a smart guy like you, how you have totally missed the point.
The Haitian issue has been thoroughly discussed over and over again to the point of exhaustion, yet you still dare state "....not consider Haitians as "invaders." Unless you are purposedly pleading ignorance, it appears as if it went completely over your head. You just don't get it, do you?
Yes, I agree it is dispicable to abuse and take advantage of "indefensive" illegal Haitians, but that is besides the point. You appear not capable of seeing the big picture. This is not as simple as you make it out to be. This is not about two million hungry and destitute Haitians looking for a better quality of life. And if by this time you have not understood the dimension of the problem, then figure it out yourself. I wont waste by breath anymore.
From: United States
Generoso, I have some Dramamine handy in case you might need some. I already had a couple myself.
Written by: Escott, 20 Aug 2012 9:04 PM
From: Dominican Republic, Cabrera and Sosua a 2 days a month for payday
Generoso you are DEAD wrong. Haitians bring hard work to the table at low wages. Dominicans won't do he work Haitians do at any price and if you think they are displacing Dominicans you need your freakin head examined.
These people are hard working and as honest as most Dominicans and more honest than a lot. Stop putting these people down, it shows your LOW CLASS. Hell the US is tired of stankin Dominicans like you.
From: United States
Escott said:
"Dominicans won't do he work Haitians do at any price"
You know that's BULLSHIT!
From: United States, Earth
Guillermone- You and whomever else can attempt all they want to try and paint as being out of touch and unrealistic. But lets get one thing straight, all the 1.5 (or more) Haitians in the Dominican Republic did not come across the border ducking bullets and scaling walls. A GREAT number of them BOUGHT their way in. THAT is not an invasion, that is a unscrupolous INVITATION. Secondly, if you consider Haitians as "invaders" then you might wanna call Dominicans in the US invaders too. Now personally, I don't label (and NEVER have) people in those derogative terms like so many of the "reasonable" people on here lable Haitians, nor do I put patriotism before altruism, but don't think the entire US populous thinks the Washington Heights area is an ideal "American" neighborhood. There are drugs, crimes and welfare cases in abundance. So if you think that what (some) Haitians do in DR and what (some) Dominicans do is so different you are wrong. On an even playing field its the SAME.
From: United States, Earth
..and by an 'even playing field' I mean that the effects are the same, its just the context is different because Dominicans in DR and Americans in the US live on different levels anyway! You, nor ANYBODY can say, "oh well don't compare the US to DR". Well duh! Its not the exact same, but if coming when and where you are not invited is invasion...well I guess a LOT of people including Dominicans are invading just as well. Haitians come to the DR which is a developing nation so the competition is for seats in class, hospital beds etc. Well guess what? That competition does not exist as much in the US because the US is developed. But the effects are STILL there, because instead of fighting over a hospital bed, in the US the fight is for a decent job, a decent apartment, a seat on the bus to get to where you need to go. Poverty is on a different levels, but it is STILL poverty.
From: United States
Bernard -Like I said once before, you just don't get it, do you?
Next time my friend when you make some sort of comparative analogy, please do so but compare apples to apples, otherwise whatever issue you wish to emphasize as if one and the same or equal to none, becomes baseless, unsubstantiated and a moot point.
From: United States, Earth
Dominicans in the US have the same potential to bring either good or bad to where they go, just as Haitians do. Don't call me out of touch, guess what? IM NOT HIRING HAITIAN CONSTRUCTION WORKERS! Go and check your compadre! Go and contact those Engineers who hired what is probably a 100% Haitian workforce. THEN after you do that go and contact all of the CESFRONT officers who let them in by the truckloads. THEN go and send a message to the Government who shook hands with the big Sugar monopolies and ask them what the heck did they think was gonna happen?? All I'm doing is calling a Spade a Spade. Don't act like EVERY Dominican in the US is a legal, educated, morally upright and law abiding citizen, and God's gift to America, and that somehow EVERY Haitian is a curse to Dominican soil because that is NOT the case. There are plenty Dominicans (in the US)that ARE excellent individuals, however, Haitians and Dominicans bring the SAME potential for good and bad.
From: United States
If you don't consider 1 undocumented Haitian out of every four or five Dominicans an invasions, then I don't know what to call it. And if not what do you call it? One word answer please.
New tell me Bernard, what proportions of undocumented Dominicans make up the population of the United States?
From: United States, Earth
Blame whomever you want, fact is that Haiti and the Dominican Republic are joined at the hips like conflicted siamese twins, born out of the violent birth canal of history. And due to many events internal AND external Haiti is now where it is. The Government of Haiti has been weak for so long that its authority is basically non-existent and the Dominican Government trying to capatilize on what appeared to be a good "score" became drunk on its own thirst for cheap labor and now you have 3 - 6 generations of Haitians on the Dominican side. The REAL question is how do you a) stop the flow of illegal Haitians into Dominican territory and b) how is it reversed?? Well look at the immigration in the US with Mexicans as just ONE example. Do you see any major reform happening?? Nope. Why?? The problem is simply too big. The 'fix' is NOT DR, agreed. It is Haiti becoming a Country again. But in the meantime, corruption on both sides has to end, or else its a pointless effort.
From: United States
So what is your point ? You have been rambling on without getting to the point you want to make. /
From: United States, Earth
Try and get EVERY Dominican that was not born in the US to just up and leave and go back "home" and see how easy it is. The desire to live a better quality of life is STRONG my friend. That is what motivates people to hop in yolas and risk their lives trying to reach Puerto Rico, or from Cuba to Florida. Point is, Haitians are trying to live and survive so their resilience is stronger than say someone determined to order Pizza on Thanksgiving. Does that give them a "right" to come to the Dominicans Republic?? No, of course not. Law is law. But what I don't get is how some Dominicans (not neccesarily you) not even living IN the Dominican Republic can be so vocal and rigid towards Haitians when their OWN abuelo came to the US illegally (or maybe legally) in search of the EXACT SAME THING!! Get real! If you love your patria that much go back to it and stand at the border with a machete and a whistle, if your not willing to do that, than do us a favor, sit down and be silent!
From: United States, Earth
What do I call them?? Hmm...well since most of them paid their way into the Country, I would call them "ticket holders." Or maybe "border customers", or maybe "consumers". Call them what you want. But what do you call the people in charge of guarding the border who do the exact opposite?? Traitors?? Liars?? Sin verguenzas??
Point is, the blame is NOT just in the Haitians that comes across the border, it also lies with him who allowed it eithe directly or indirectly.
Do I know the exact figures of how many illegal Dominicans are in the US?? Uh...well...since they are undocumented I imagine it would be kinda difficult to track that type of data now wouldn't it??? smh
What I can tell you is that there are plenty. There is a documentary on youtube partially talking about it made by what deduced was a Dominican. So regardless of the actual figures, they do come and they impact their communities, sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way.
From: United States
OK Bernard you are obviously an advocate of undocumented Haitians, do you work for an NGO?
And also and again I repeat, after your numerous and extensive posts, what is your point?
In a few words please, tell us what is it you are you trying to say?
Written by: williom, 21 Aug 2012 12:05 AM
From: United States
In a few words, BJP is saying:
Fix corruption in your country. Apparently, that's pretty close to impossible. Therefore, sit back, watch and be quiet.
From: United States
@williom:
Hey,what about fixing the corruption in Haiti,ONCE AND FOR ALL,HUH?
WHAT HAS THE HAITIAN GOVERNMENT EVER DONE TO FIX THIS?
Written by: williom, 21 Aug 2012 1:10 AM
From: United States
Trinitario809: That was BJP's message in a few words -that I guess. Don't shoot me!
Written by: IloveDR, 21 Aug 2012 1:24 AM
From: Dominican Republic, Santo Domingo
This is why we need to get rid of these haitian savages, starting with basta and joseana. Pendejos de mierda.
From: United States, Brooklyn
too bad the haitians failed. That would have taught the rest to employ dominicans.
Written by: josean, 21 Aug 2012 6:13 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
.
Its the ECONOMIES Stupid!!
As Basic as Supply and Demand!
Dominican elites have a demand for cheap labor and Hatian elites a have supply of desperate workers!
Until those fundamentals of the equation aren't changed you can continue to hyperventilate in ignorance and xenophobic racist rage!
Written by: generoso, 21 Aug 2012 6:46 AM
From: Dominican Republic, United States
Josean, The king of ad hominems shows up, in his defense of his Haitian brothers with force, with the usual insults and mockeries.
NO Bernard, when you BRIBE an official or military at the border, you are NOT paying your way in (that maybe the Haitian school), you are committing a felony, and a crime that can command jail time.
If that is your obscure reasoning to justify the presence of two million illegals, that the ones that have not been caught, may have BRIBED their way in ILLEGALLY, breaking all laws, then monsieur, you need an urgent revision of your moral compass.
Written by: josean, 21 Aug 2012 7:28 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
All human beings are my Brothers even the most ignorant hyperventilators like you!
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
I wished the Haitians would have killed these lowlifes, it is a much needed lesson. To all here defending the Haitian exodus and comparing it to Dominicans abroad are presenting a baseless argument. First how many Dominicans in the US reside in the country illegally, a very small number, on the other hand illegal Haitians in DR make up more than 10 % of the population, so yes it is an invasion and it must be stopped. Is it e fault of the Haitians alone? no, but that is besides the point.
Written by: josean, 21 Aug 2012 7:49 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
No, that is the point, it takes two explotive elites to Tango; the Haitian and the Dominican!
Written by: jasfalon, 21 Aug 2012 8:56 AM
From: United States
I tried to get Haitians to burn tires and strike at Infiniti Blu in Sosua. They failed to pay Haitian workers before Christmas and Carnival. This is how Dominican and foreign developers operate. Too bad they didn't kill the scumbags.
From: United States
Josean is yet to criticise the Haitian government or its people.
Haitians can't do no wrong in this guy's eyes!
From: Dominican Republic, NEVER FORGOTTEN, NEVER FORSAKEN!
"Too bad they didn't kill the scumbags."
Indeed. I don't support murder, but these guys deserve some sort of punishment. "For the labourer is worthy of his wages"
...now, let's just imagine the kind of repercussions if these workers would've killed these low life contractors?
Written by: Atabey, 21 Aug 2012 10:16 AM
From: United States, NYC
Generoso and Guillermone,
So right and on point. Bernard, you continually fail to adhere to a fair comparison when discussing the matter. DR and Haiti are developing and in the case of the latter a failed state. You can not compare a relatively small and developing state with MANY unresolved social and economic problems of its own to take on the responsibilities of a failed nation-state!
The Haitian Question does have a possible solution: Globalize or Internationalize the solution!
If the international community would ever get around to putting as much debate and pressure-as they do on DR- to seeing 60 nations taking in on a sliding scale, 50,000 for the US, Europe, 20,000 for Canada, and the rest can manage say 10,000 to 500 per year admittance, the solution will have arrived by one or certainly so by two decades time!
Doing so will give Haitians a breathing period to get its nation-state organized and allow greater resources to come in via transfers.
Written by: josean, 21 Aug 2012 10:45 AM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
"Written by: Trinitario809, 21 Aug 2012 10:13 AM
From: United States
Josean is yet criticise the Haitian government or its people.
Haitians can't do no wrong in this guy's eyes!
The Government and the Haitian Elites yes, the people No!
They are as much a victim of their elites and government as we are in DR!
It’s the ECONOMIES Stupid and the elites on both sides of the border that control them; we are ALL pawns in their greedy games!
From: Dominican Republic
mmmm... wow.....
ok.. Some very good points and some shockingly stupid in the condoning of murder....
guillermone
"OK Bernard you are obviously an advocate of undocumented Haitians"
I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I fail to see where BJP avocated undocumented workers anywhere (here or USA) ??
BJP made some very good points about the problem steming from the fact that the work is here in the DR if they can get here, it's because of the industries that hire them do and can get away with hiring more than the 15% law....
G.
" when you BRIBE an official or military at the border, you are NOT paying your way in (that maybe the Haitian school), you are committing a felony, and a crime that can command jail time."
G. Is not the worse crime from those that take the bribe? they are in a payed position to up hold the law of the country and by taking the bribe are they not commiting a greater offence and a disserive to all of the country?
From: United States, Earth
@Atabey - Unlike a lot of people on here I don't have the Sith lord mentality when it comes to this issue. In other words I dont have to ONLY take one side or the other. And that objectivity allows me to see things from more than one perspective. I NEVER said that the Dominican Republic was the answer to Haiti, in fact I just said in a previous post that is was NOT the answer to Haitis problems so don't put words in my mouth nor assume that I think that way just because I don't agree with the rest of your forum buddies. All I am saying is that the Haitian problem is a shared responsibility issue. It comes from poverty and authoritative weakness on the Haitian side and greed and corruption on the Dominican side. And all of that is compounded by the ridiculous red tape of the International community who prevents the aid from going where it needs to. But Haitians are people just like everyone else, if the shoe was on the other foot....
Written by: williom, 21 Aug 2012 11:07 AM
From: United States
stillhere:
BJP always makes some great points. However, the same crew here is also always quick to label him a Haitian with a HIDDEN AGENDA.
This is how much they refuse to see his points:
((
" when you BRIBE an official or military at the border, you are NOT paying your way in (that maybe the Haitian school), you are committing a felony, and a crime that can command jail time."
G. Is not the worse crime from those that take the bribe? they are in a payed position to up hold the law of the country and by taking the bribe are they not commiting a greater offence and a disserive to all of the country?
))
That's exactly why he was in Hiatus for such a long time.
Written by: vacanos, 21 Aug 2012 11:07 AM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
escot"Generoso you are DEAD wrong. Haitians bring hard work to the table at low wages. Dominicans won't do he work Haitians do at any price and if you think they are displacing Dominicans you need your freakin head examined. ."
Biggest myth ever by the enemies of DR.
WHO WERE THE PEOPLE WHO USED TO BUILT THEIR COUNTRY ON THEIR BACK IN CONSTRUCTION 20 YEARS AGO? WHO USED TO BE THE PEOPLE WORKING IN THE AGRICULTURE 20 YEARS AGO?
I ASK MYSELF WAS I WATCHING ALIEN.
From: United States, Earth
@stillhere - Thank you. Unfortunately in this forum community if you are not %100 for the Dominican cause regardless of any and everything you are labeled as an "enemy" regardless of how logical and reasonable your arguments may be.
And yes you are exactly right, TAKING the bribe is just as much an offense if not even more so because they are being paid to do a job which involves protecting the sovereignty of the nation they claim to be so loyal to.
I am not saying that the Haitian problem is not a burden on the already meager resources of the Dominican Government, but as I have repeated it's partly their fault too. You can't be the victimizer and reap the benefits of a booming sugar trade built on cheap Haitian labor and then turn around and claim to be the victim. If you eat the dinner, you wash the dishes. The International community DOES have to help. But don't demonize Haitians only as if they all just Mission Impossible'd their way there. No, many of then paid to be there.
From: United States, I dont even live inside a house , I haunt one!
Im siding with the haitians here, you bust your butt for a whole month working and these fools don`t have the money to pay for you labor ? on top of that there calling immigrations to keep from paying you lmao . I would want to chop some heads of too
From: United States, Earth
Now, I would also not agree that Dominicans would not do those type of jobs. When you have a family to provide for you will do whatever you need to, thats universal. The situation is similar in the US. There many jobs that now associated with the migrant population, however that doesn't mean that nobody would do those jobs if they up and left. It simply means that the contractors prefer to pay less to receive more. So again it goes back to the person that is hiring those workers. All I'm saying is that so laughable when people act like they are so strict when it comes to applying the law when it comes to Haitians, but then paying a few pesos to an AMET officer is ok to escape a multa?! Please! How nieve is that??? And THATS why this problem has much more to do with just a porous border or cheap labor. It's all of that planted into the fertile grounds of a culture that nourishes corruption. Whether its paying to avoid a ticket or come across the border it's ALL the same thing.
Written by: vacanos, 21 Aug 2012 11:51 AM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
bernard"@stillhere - Thank you. Unfortunately in this forum community if you are not %100 for the Dominican cause regardless of any and everything you are labeled as an "enemy" regardless of how logical and reasonable your arguments may be. "
NO. The problem is that some foreigners like yourself plea ignorance over reality. When almost 35% of the population is composed of illegal people that only bring backward mentality to the country. Then people like you try to appease the problem as there is not an issue then it is not a secret that it is an agenda.
From: United States
@BJP-"Unfortunately in this forum community if you are not %100 for the Dominican cause regardless of any and everything you are labeled as an "enemy" regardless of how logical and reasonable your arguments may be."
The problem with you BJP is the same complaint I have made about you from day day 1- Yes you make a lot of good and valid points, but we don't know really the theme behind your argument. What is it that you are arguing about?
If you and your associates are not able to see the big picture with relation to the massive Haitian influx, then I sure as hell can't see what is the unifying and dominant idea that you want to make about the undocumented in the DR.
Would you get to the point please and stop going around in circles. And say in perhaps one or two sentences, tell us briefly and clearly what you want to say?
From: United States, Vivir sin Patria, es lo mismo que vivir sin Honor.
According to him, he is neutral and so he can express himself objectively, but i think one way or the other he supports the illegal flow of Haitians into DR territory.
Dominicans who possess some form of nationalist feelings for our country need to speak out against what can only be considered as peacefull invasion. Our values, way of life and national identity are at stake.
Haitians in DR can be a positive endeavor, but has to be done according to the law with porcedures that allow for accountability.
I know it is the fault of the Dominican authorities, i blame nobody else but our government for the Haitian exodus.
Written by: vacanos, 21 Aug 2012 12:26 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
How many foreigners has we seen here supporting our government right to mass deportation of illegal Haitian? The worst of them here are the one that come from culture guilt countries that want to help the Haitian by giving us the entire problem.
JAMAICA doesnt want that problem. Heck they even deported the few Haitians that made it ashore after the earquake.
Bahamas PM stated at one time that the country will not take care of ONE SINGLE Haitian patient after the earthquake.
And the list go on with the black caribbean countries that do not want he Haitian pest.
Meanwhile (3) (3) (3) THREE THREE THREE MILLIONS HAITIANS WERE GIVEN FOOD, HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION FOR FREE. Yet we are the bad guy and God forbid if we Haitian deport a single Haitian because then we are labal a racist.
Why arent these "self hate" black in these island not put in their place by the NGO?
From: United States
this happens hundreds of times a day around the country. work them 12 hours a day 7 days a week then report them to the police AFTER the work is done. Perhaps a few lynching would motivate payment
Written by: vacanos, 21 Aug 2012 12:44 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
sweetbaby "
this happens hundreds of times a day around the country. work them 12 hours a day 7 days a week then report them to the police AFTER the work is done. Perhaps a few lynching would motivate payment"
Or motivate the government to do their job where this issue took place where the people of Santiago are sick and tired of this Haitian problem as they see the invading Haitians taking over our city little by little.
Written by: josean, 21 Aug 2012 1:00 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
"I know it is the fault of the Dominican authorities, i blame nobody else but our government for the Haitian exodus."
Mr.hernandez5482,
I agree 100% but you must include the Haitian Government, as well as, the Haitian and Dominican Elites and now we are cooking with gas (no pun intended) at arriving at a humane solution to the violation of our immigration laws!
From: Dominican Republic
Why don't you just leave aside the races or nationalities. What happened then?
A company is exploiting cheap labor force, probably many even without legal permission, and then doesn't want to pay for their work.
How is the natural reaction?
That is what happened here.
Put these criminals (the ones that don't pay) to trial.
But here of course the Haitian issue is coming up immediately. Where ist the patriotism here? Why don't you employ Dominicans for higher wages if you don't want Haitians here?
From: Canada
Haitians
Don't
Play
I
Kept
Telling
You
You
Don't
Play
With
Us
The rest of Us
Are
Just
Next
Door to you , you may have a million Haitians in DR but there are 10 more million of us in Haiti
We know , you're just running your mouths .a new generation of new Haitians now emerge and a new Haiti.
We have come a long way thanks to the diaspora mostly , they are big eye openers .
I love our President too .
Just
Remember
That
You
Don't
Want
To
P155
Haitians
Off
Not recommended
I will be back
MWA hahahaha
From: Canada
I
Am
Glad
The
Haitians
Are
Realizing
That it's not worth it in DR , dominicans themselves are poor ,
I expect record numbers of Haitians to return to Haiti , as Haiti heals and and gets better
A few hundreds came back last year , if they want real money they go to richer countries and earn dollars , euros ,etc .....
I
Watched a documentary on DR last night and boy , have I leaned more now
I know more of what to what to reply back when I hear bragging or insu lts towards Haitians .
I will be back
Bwa hahahahahaha
not
............
P&$0$
Written by: vacanos, 21 Aug 2012 1:39 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Hait4ever<<<-------------------------------the usual Haitian no wonder they are pest to the enire region.
From: Canada
@Vacanos
Shut
Da
....
U
P
I will get back to you ,
Your motor mouth will soon run dry
You
........
C
L
O
W
N
From: United States, Earth
@guillermone - What you can't understand is that I don't NEED a "theme" to make valid argument. I'm not exclusively on the Dominican side of the argument, nor am I exclusively for the Haitian side of the argument. In fact in this SAME article I clearly stated that I did NOT care for the way the Haitians handled the situation. If I was such the Haitian extremist I am often labeled to be then I would have not made such a comment. But compare that to how many times ANY one of your forum buddies has ANYTHING positive or even remotely fair to say regarding Haitians. Funny, I don't remember ANYBODY jumping on this thread to say "that's wrong" or "that's not fair". But as soon as the obvious is mentioned here the Calvary (led by the unapologetically biased generoso) comes running in to blame the Haitians as if nobody else is to blame. Go figure
Written by: vacanos, 21 Aug 2012 1:51 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Hati4ever I dont speak patua.
From: Canada
@vacanos
Too bad
I don't
" L IN GUA "
Neither
I will be back
You
........
P.........d0
From: United States, Earth
So those facts speak much louder than anything I can say. Anybody can document my words on this site and see that I DO support Dominicans as well, I've even defended them from Brasileno. But how many times have my criticones defended Haitians in ANY way?? What I do hear them saying is that Haitians are "invaders", "dirty", "backwards" etc. And that's why I speak up. Because its unfair and down right stupid to dare and categorize a whole group of people as "backwards" as if the plethora of Men killing Women every week with machetes, trash tossed about, lackadaisical attitudes toward prostitution and political leaders building trains when kids cant even get a decent meal, people can't receive a proper education, clean water OR electricity, as if THAT was oh so civilized and forward thinking because it's NOT!! Get real! If Haitians are backwards, what does that make the Government and Dominican border agents that let them in?? Both are developing countries, and both have social ills.
From: Canada
@Vacanos
We speak creole , please don't confuse us for Jamaicans , they speak English Patois , we speak Creole , regardless if it means quite the same thing , we Haitians don't like o hear it we are Creoles , we left our finger prints all over Louisiana in the states , we share history with them and a lot were also in Haiti in the past , we have similarities with MARTINIQUE , Guadeloupe , and other smother islands even in Mauritius , they speak like us Haitians , I met a few Asians , who speak creole with Haitian accents , because over there they speak creole also their accents are more closer o Haitians than Martinique and Guadeloupe , but it's the same lanuage , lots of Haitian bands play there and they play in our country . We share the same culture almost like them , they speak like us but Mauiius whether they are Indians , blacks , or Arabs , their creole sounds like ours .alot of them go out with Haitians here in Canada .
Google
Won't show you all.
From: Dominican Republic
Add to the conversation with some type of intelligent thoughts or piss off Haiti4Ever.
Your writings are a waist of page space and add nothing....
From: Dominican Republic
This complex issue is a world wide problem and has no easy solution that will please very one at one time..
A clear message needs to be made about hiring none documented workers, fines and the appropriate punishments handed out to ALL braking the laws regarding this matter. From the person hiring, the person taking the bribes, the ones handing over the bribes, those here knowingly working with out papers and the ones avoiding the issues and quite happy to keep profiting from cheap illegal workers..
This will not change until people are jailed, kick out and corruption on both sides stops.
From: Canada
@Vacanos
Jamaicans Are similar to Barbados , Trinidad ! Guyana , saint Kitts , Grenada ,and a few others
They stick with each other , Haiians did not understand then , that's why we were separated until now , the problem with why Haiians were urn down was earlier on , it was an old attitude from Jamaicans towards Haitians , but it's common now to see Haiians and Jamaicans hang out together after all we share the same cultures just different languages ,
You think if it really comes down to business , you think a Jamaican would let or watch someone be at up a Haitian or a Haiian a Jamican ,
They are brothers either way , lots of Jamaicans would defend. Ahitian or Guyanese or vice versa
Don't forget that ?
You Latinos would Hang with Latinos
, Jamican is poor they can't employ Haitians like richer countries .but under Martelly good relationships kept.
Bermuda and Bahamas are not like the rest , they are different people but still share the same roots and cul
From: Canada
I will be back
More than a thousand words
It cut off the rest ....
Written by: vacanos, 21 Aug 2012 2:23 PM
From: United States, An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Haiti4
Too bad you guys did not pick up the same culture as Martinique or Guadeloupe as they want nothing to do with you guys. If it werent for us Dominicans helping you guys imagine Somalia or Rwanda. It is a big burden on all of us. Dont you think?
From: United States, Earth
Just go to NaguaDigitalTV and find where the boy was tied up to the bed, or where the Man cuts a limb of his lover, or how the "classy" Buffet for the ayuntamiento turned into a chair slinging WWF bout. Thats why the term "backwards" should be removed from the vocabulary of ANY person that thinks Dominicans are somehow morally and intellectually superior.
The point is ONLY to show that ignorance, crime, and destructive practices can be found EVERYWHERE. Interesting that in domestic abuse case the same act is committed by (apparently) a Dominican AND a Haitian. But I guess it was only "backwards mentality" when the Haitian did it.
Be it Haitian, Dominican or American doing something injurious, it's ALL just different manifestations of social ills. But the idea that Haitians are single handedly bringing the moral and intellectual standards of the Dominican Republic down (as if it was just so "non-backwards") is just so ignorant and hypocritical that it makes my stomach churn.
From: United States
Bernard do you agree and think it is OK to allow close to 2 million undocumented Haitians to enter our territory and permanently remain in the DR to live, work and procreate "stateless"children because they are simply like any other normal human, only looking for a better quality of life? I guess it makes it alright, don't you think so?
Written by: josean, 21 Aug 2012 3:53 PM
From: United States, Fighting the Dictatorship of the Narco PLD Mafia; Guillermo Moreno President 2016
"Be it Haitian, Dominican or American doing something injurious, it's ALL just different manifestations of social ills."
Or an American Congressman running to be a United States Senator in Missouri and former IBM engineer, Todd Akin, who said;
"It seems to me, first of all, from what I understand from doctors, that's really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down!"
From: United States, Earth
Do I think it's OK? Nope. I think that the Dominican Repulic is simply not suited to support it. (shocked are you?!) But apparently the Dominican Government does think that it is ok. Apparently they are so advanced in their thinking that they easily foresaw this event occurring a long time ago. Right?? But if they are their according to the law, let them be. If they are there illegally the Government can carry out deportations, but those deportations have to be done in accordance with law and human rights. Waiting until the Santiagueros get fed up to rush in and randomly scoop up a truck full of Haitians based on their appearance is NOT going fix the problem. The ARRIVAL is more significant than the departure. All I am saying is 1) don't JUST blame the Haitians 2) don't act so particular to applying laws all of a sudden when it comes to Haitians and 3) recognize that Haitians are not any more backwards than Dominicans all things considered.
Be fair, be realistic, be consistent.
Written by: PapaD0c, 21 Aug 2012 5:19 PM
From: Haiti
Haiti4ever son,we should be grateful our haitian brothers weren't successful,otherwise they would have been lynched in retaliation and the DR would have been blamed for racism.
Written by: PapaD0c, 21 Aug 2012 5:31 PM
From: Haiti
Haitian creyole is only understood by haitians,we can't communicate with anybody else outside of haiti.
From: Dominican Republic
I'm afraid that this kind of situations will become more common if the Dominican Government don't step in and start heavily fining those business that hire illegal immigrants. Like Josean said "is the economy....". Although I believe that, economics alone is not responsible for the levels of illegal immigration in Dominican Rep., I think, in my humble opinion, that the large flow of illegal Haitian immigrants is due to the level of desperation of the poor masses in Haiti.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Aug 2012 6:14 PM
From: United States, NYC
" when you BRIBE an official or military at the border, you are NOT paying your way in (that maybe the Haitian school), you are committing a felony, and a crime that can command jail time."
G. Is not the worse crime from those that take the bribe? they are in a payed position to up hold the law of the country and by taking the bribe are they not commiting a greater offence and a disserive to all of the country?"
Bernard,
Legally speaking you stand in pure mud when you express this view. It has no basis in law! The payment of a bribe to illegally enter a foreign nation-state is an unlawful act. Punto y Fin.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Aug 2012 6:20 PM
From: United States, NYC
Bernard stated:
"Well look at the immigration in the US with Mexicans as just ONE example. Do you see any major reform happening?? Nope...."
"Deportation numbers have risen under the Obama administration and are up from 190,000 in 2001 to nearly 400,000 per year in the last four years, according to the Center for American Progress. In the first six months of 2011, more than 46,000 parents of U.S. citizen children were deported."
Illegal Immigrant Deportations by the Numbers
By PAUL BEDARD
September 6, 2011
For all the grief President Obama has taken over his immigration policy—Republicans say he's a wimp, Democrats say he's not compassionate enough—one fact has emerged during his term so far. He's deported about 18 percent more illegal immigrants than former President George W. Bush did in his last two years in office. And he's on par to have given the boot to nearly 1.5 million immigrants by the time this term is done."
What were you saying Bernard?
Written by: Atabey, 21 Aug 2012 7:00 PM
From: United States, NYC
Written by: Arcangel96,
"I think, in my humble opinion, that the large flow of illegal Haitian immigrants is due to the level of desperation of the poor masses in Haiti."
100%.
Now who's fault is that?
What Bernard, Josean, Stillhere, et al don't want to acknowledge is that THE EPICENTER and generator of all this mess is DIRECTLY located in Haiti. For it is there that too many people have been for many generation ill-housed, ill-schooled, ill-treated by their OWN people. Thus generating the vast majority of the people seeking disparately any way out of such meager opportunity environments. Go to the source of the troubles guys.
And yes, provide more law and order on both sides. All these DR firms who are doing unlawful practices should be heavily fined. And border troops, including higher up the chain of command, engaged in illegal activities fired and imprisoned. Two wrongs don't make a right. The gents are committing a subfallacy Tu Quoque.
Written by: Atabey, 21 Aug 2012 7:03 PM
From: United States, NYC
Here's an example to illustrate the point further:
'This is a very clear example of the fallacy. The terrorists tried to justify bombing the Pentagon on the grounds that the Pentagon had unjustifiably bombed Iraq/Syria. The gist of the fallacy is contained in the last sentence, which claims that the wrongness of the Pentagon's actions justified a similar wrong: "Wrong + wrong = right."
But attempting to justify committing a wrong on the grounds that someone else is guilty of another wrong is clearly a Red Herring, because if this form of argument were cogent, one could justify anything?always assuming that there is another wrong to point to, which is a very safe assumption.'
From: United States
Again many posters deviate from the topic of conversation. It is a shameful act to contract whether written or verbal to pay someone for their labor and then seek to steal their compensation by calling immigration. For as little as these construction workers are paid there should never be a shortage of money if the contractors weren't pocketing the money. In any language, in any form that act is nothing but theft. These contractors may not have had the intention of calling immigration as other lowlifes but they definitely were not considering the workers when expending the budget. Either way their scare was well deserved.
@ fille d'Ayti you may have 10-12 million people, well we got 10-12 million guns. You guys are a long way from matching us militarily. You need to stop threatening us with stones and machetes in a gunfight you imbecil.
From: Canada
@PapaBUT....T.....LI.....C......KI...N...G doc
Mauritian Creole is the lingua franca of Mauritius. Mauritius, formerly a British colony, has kept English as its official language, although French is more widely spoken. Mauritians tend to speak Creole at home and French in the workplace. Creole is a French based language. French and English are spoken in schools. However, although a large percentage of Mauritians are of Indian descent, they primarily speak Creole, which is their mother tongue in the sense that their ancestors along with those of African, European and Chinese descent helped build the creole languages together centuries ago, when Mauritius was the merging place of peoples from different continents who together founded a nation with its own culture and history.
From: Canada
@Papadoc
I went to school with few Mauritians , some were Asians Indians and other , they spoke like us , because their country is far , some words are not the same but 7 out 10 remains
Lots of Haitians don't know of this , they think it's just Martinique , Quadelouoe only , it's depends on who they are , some are aware , however , people from Seychelles can communicate with Haitians also , because they speak creole , The people from Saint Vincent as well
You think it's to make Haiti big ?
I am not you , remember that , money I spend on wine alone could probably pay your rent
You're probably a CHUBBY DOMINICAN" 0f 26 year olds
Please don't comeback and tell me that it's because you eat well and Haitians don't have , if you do that , I will certainly put you in your place "Dominican Punk"
You probably fed on fu....... Chicken all the time , it's cheap , so you have a feast
From: Canada
@Papadoc
By the way Bands from Guadeloupe and Martinique play in Haiti multiple times a year and our bands play in their countries any Haitian or Martiniquains or Guadeloupean could tell you that , not like you ll get to talk to any of them knowing the Sh....... Life style you probably capable of going only to cheap clubs and bars , while I speak Farnk Sinatra ,Piano ,Lounges Hotels , Terraces , Galas , fashion shows ,
I ve catered to gals , fashion Shows , Hotels etc ........
You are tasteless compare to me " BOY "
From: Canada
@Papadoc
You said , good thing the Haitian workers did not succeed and that Dominicans would retaliate
You know why , because it's a group of 50 Haitians against thousands ,
How many times that I must remind you little Dominican c0 wards that you can not fight us ?
Believe you me if this was to get big and retail lite you d have to deal with the entire island next door
You have millions who d just come cross the border by foot and fight you
"Boy "
You don't wanna start Sh...... With Haitians , you can only hurt us if we are 20 and encircled by 300 ,
Learn that "Dominican Boy "
Please stop using the term racism , Dominicans keep forgetting they are just white wannabes who try to pass on what whites have passed on to them to a nother minority .
The word is prejudice not racism , stop wishing you were white .stop copy to be accepted
You
Bunch
Of
House
N..........
The mentality still lives within you .
From: Canada
Furthermore
I heard
Some
Dogs
Barking
I will come back later and deal with their disrespects like User ( guillermone ) and I think 2 more dominican punks
I just stopped by to deal with that wanna be Haitian
Pu......y
Hole
. (Papadoc)
When the cat is away its always like that
I
Will
Be
Back
Later
And
Deal
With
Some
People
For( LATER ) is always (GREATER)
MWA hahahahahahahaahahahaha
From: Canada
Fight
Us
And
See
Your army ain't Sh..........
Nor are your people , even the hardcore crimi Alls
Someone that sell dru g s only have the contacts not the muscle , because he only alk on a cell phone and drve
Test
Us
And
See
MWA Hahahahaaha
I hope it would be the entire island too
MWA hahahahahahahaahahahaha
Come
On
If
You
Think you're bad , give us that chance
We
Haitians
Would
Love to
See
That
That would be the end for you
Bl........d
Would reach you to your knees .we don't care how old
Haitians
Don't
Play
Keep that in mind .
Bwa
Haha
Haha
Haha
Haha
From: Canada
For
Example
We
A
Group of
50
Haitians
Did
That
On
Your
Soil
But
50
Dominicans
Would
Be too scared to try that in Haiti .
Don't
.........
With
Us
Don't
Keep
Pushing
The
Envelope
Nor should you keep putting wood the already lit fire
We'd love an opportunity just to let out what we ve held back for decades for you
Just try
From: United States
Again the cries of a lunatic banshee chimp. (The former comia de popeye) Read my posts big mouth: militarily u are no match for us. We have no desire to possess your crappy lands(made crappy by your backward practices) nor do we desire to rule your unruly people. What we do desire is for the majority of your people in our country to leave. Sooner or later we shall push you out as we have the previous 2 centuries. Every turn of the century your people try the same sh*t. This turn of the century will not be different than the past. You always outnumbered us but that made no difference when we are defending our lands, our families, our way of life. All it takes is a little spark like what almost happened in this article and the whole population will unite in kicking your people out. Hope there is some compassion for the descendants of the original cane cutters , I feel they are Dominicans. The last decades' immigrants gotta go so Dominicans can go back to work in OUR land.
From: Canada
@venganzaderafael
The
People
Will
Unite
And
Kick
Them
Out
Bet you thought , you had me there
Right ?
W
R
O
N
G
You
.......
P...55........yeater
From: Canada
@venganzaderafael
Puertoricans
Might do
The
Same
And
Americans
As
Well
To
Your
People
And besides , what way of life ?
MWA HAHAAHAHAHA
Funny they re saying the very same about you
Quiet
Little
YellowDominican "boy"
I will eventually get back
Ou called me a chi mp
Yet
Your country is referred to as " The Ba an .....a Rebubl.....
Aren't
You
The
Same
Ones
Saying
That
Haiti
Has
No
Trees
Than you therefore have all the jungles
Funny isn't it?
, you're no match for me , regardless how you shape your English ,
From: Canada
@Vangaderafael
Not
That
You
Wouldn't
Wanna
Possess
My
Land
You wish you could
But
Can't
You can't possess nor buy Haiti
You
......
To occupy us , you couldn't
You don't have the money
Nor can your military can control Haiti
Nor
Could
You
Ever
But
At
Least
We
Could
Say
We
Once
Did
MWA
Hahahahahaha
Once again
You' ve been punked by
YOur own comments as usual
You think it's by how mean you say things that will humble me like your Dominican friend user (Papadoc) trying hard to do so ?
MWA
Hahaha
You
Haven't seen
Nothing yet
MWA HAHAHAHAHA
MWA hahahaha
MWA hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaahahahaha
From: Canada
@vengazaderafael
You called my people sugar cane cutters
Don't
Forget that a Lawnmower isn't most likely not a university graduate either ?
You
......
Do.....min....can
Punk
From: United States
According to you no one is a match verbally to you , yet all you do is rant, curse and Bwahahaa! That you simpleton, is not verbal sparring. As far as calling anyone" cowards or yellow"I already called you out for a physical sparring match and you declined you undercover B*tch" . But when the fighting starts I will be there. Will you ? Imbecilic treeless simian. (That's a real stupid monkey with no trees to swing on).
From: Dominican Republic
Dr A.
" What Bernard, Josean, Stillhere, et al don't want to acknowledge is that THE EPICENTER and generator of all this mess is DIRECTLY located in Haiti."
aaarrrr I think we all understand and have written it more than once..
Me."This will not change until people are jailed, kick out and corruption on both sides stops."
And you can go to other parts of this site to see more about my thoughts on the mess next door... It is one part of the large problem...
"G. Is not the worse crime from those that take the bribe? they are in a payed position to up hold the law of the country and by taking the bribe are they not commiting a greater offence and a disserive to all of the country?"
Dr A.. you may want to read more.. as it was me that posted it not BJP...
The fact that so many come across having payed bribes (Haitian or Dominicans with trucks full) shows that the real need is to stop those taking the money, they only pay the bribe because they know they can...
From: Dominican Republic
venganzaderafael,... just don't bother with this (I'll be nice and say) "person" Just don't read it, reply to it or even consider a word of it to be anything more than the drivile it is..
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Talk about abuse, I totally agree....
I dont wish anybody harm. But if there is a case where someone need a lesson or a warning. This is the case. Because of these worm gusano paying illegal Haitians slaves wages is the main reason why we are being invaded. Arconim and the many other builder need to be set as an example. I will wait the new government of Danilo Medina approach toward this problem.
by: BernardJeanPierre,
"I can't blame those Haitians for being upset and wanting their money. Its not like they are getting paid a ton of money for that hard work. HOWEVER, violence is not the answer. If they want to get someones attention they should take it out on the construction site, stop the work flow etc. But don't inflict damage on a persons life, its not worth it. But those Engineers and Contractors who knowingly cheat, steal and try to manipulate people like that should be thrown right into a jail cell."
by: vacanos,
"I dont wish anybody harm. But if there is a case where someone need a lesson or a warning. This is the case. Because of these worm gusano paying illegal Haitians slaves wages is the main reason why we are being invaded. Arconim and the many other builder need to be set as an example. I will wait the new government of Danilo Medina approach toward this problem."
Agree 100% with your comments above.
All job sites must have a documented labor agreement that is transparent. Perhaps require that the document be posted on the job site. All workers must have either a Workers Permit or some other, in the case of Dominican workers, cedula requirement. And fined firms that break the law. Require that these firms be Identified if they fail to follow the law as in three fines and your firm's name goes on the National and local list.
Let's end this B.S. that causes so much bad publicity and shame upon the DR worldwide. Let the private contractors and firms who have heretofore adhered to nothing more than the bottom line take the hits.
Atabey "All job sites must have a documented labor agreement that is transparent. Perhaps require that the document be posted on the job site. All workers must have either a Workers Permit or some other, in the case of Dominican workers, cedula requirement. And fined firms that break the law. Require that these firms be Identified if they fail to follow the law as in three fines and your firm's name goes on the National and local list."
Atabey, there is a law that limit the Haitians laborer to 15% of the entire workforce and the rest need to be of Dominican workers. These unscrupulous builders need to be put in their place. In the past these parasites would had been dealt accordingly. One charge would had stick on the wall, treason (TRAICION A LA PATRIA).
I agree.
Let them take the hits. If they can't follow the law and want to squeeze out the last drop of ill-gains then at least accept the blame and shame. Time to identify them and make them walk the plank.
I am dizzy just reading all the garbage you wrote. DO NOT compare the US to the DR please.
Haitians are trespassing and are here illegally, fact, that makes them invaders.
The DR can not be the solution to the Haitian problem, if the Haitians are hungry so are the Dominicans, that they are displacing by elbowing their place in the DR food table, bringing nothing in exchange.
Why don't the Haitians go to Cuba right next door to them?
Haitians historically have been a violent and primitive race, and they always brought their hate and violence with them, in the many occasions they have trespassed onto the DR.
The Haitian issue has been thoroughly discussed over and over again to the point of exhaustion, yet you still dare state "....not consider Haitians as "invaders." Unless you are purposedly pleading ignorance, it appears as if it went completely over your head. You just don't get it, do you?
Yes, I agree it is dispicable to abuse and take advantage of "indefensive" illegal Haitians, but that is besides the point. You appear not capable of seeing the big picture. This is not as simple as you make it out to be. This is not about two million hungry and destitute Haitians looking for a better quality of life. And if by this time you have not understood the dimension of the problem, then figure it out yourself. I wont waste by breath anymore.
These people are hard working and as honest as most Dominicans and more honest than a lot. Stop putting these people down, it shows your LOW CLASS. Hell the US is tired of stankin Dominicans like you.
"Dominicans won't do he work Haitians do at any price"
You know that's BULLSHIT!
Next time my friend when you make some sort of comparative analogy, please do so but compare apples to apples, otherwise whatever issue you wish to emphasize as if one and the same or equal to none, becomes baseless, unsubstantiated and a moot point.
New tell me Bernard, what proportions of undocumented Dominicans make up the population of the United States?
Point is, the blame is NOT just in the Haitians that comes across the border, it also lies with him who allowed it eithe directly or indirectly.
Do I know the exact figures of how many illegal Dominicans are in the US?? Uh...well...since they are undocumented I imagine it would be kinda difficult to track that type of data now wouldn't it??? smh
What I can tell you is that there are plenty. There is a documentary on youtube partially talking about it made by what deduced was a Dominican. So regardless of the actual figures, they do come and they impact their communities, sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way.
And also and again I repeat, after your numerous and extensive posts, what is your point?
In a few words please, tell us what is it you are you trying to say?
Fix corruption in your country. Apparently, that's pretty close to impossible. Therefore, sit back, watch and be quiet.
Hey,what about fixing the corruption in Haiti,ONCE AND FOR ALL,HUH?
WHAT HAS THE HAITIAN GOVERNMENT EVER DONE TO FIX THIS?
Its the ECONOMIES Stupid!!
As Basic as Supply and Demand!
Dominican elites have a demand for cheap labor and Hatian elites a have supply of desperate workers!
Until those fundamentals of the equation aren't changed you can continue to hyperventilate in ignorance and xenophobic racist rage!
NO Bernard, when you BRIBE an official or military at the border, you are NOT paying your way in (that maybe the Haitian school), you are committing a felony, and a crime that can command jail time.
If that is your obscure reasoning to justify the presence of two million illegals, that the ones that have not been caught, may have BRIBED their way in ILLEGALLY, breaking all laws, then monsieur, you need an urgent revision of your moral compass.
All human beings are my Brothers even the most ignorant hyperventilators like you!
No, that is the point, it takes two explotive elites to Tango; the Haitian and the Dominican!
Haitians can't do no wrong in this guy's eyes!
Indeed. I don't support murder, but these guys deserve some sort of punishment. "For the labourer is worthy of his wages"
...now, let's just imagine the kind of repercussions if these workers would've killed these low life contractors?
Generoso and Guillermone,
So right and on point. Bernard, you continually fail to adhere to a fair comparison when discussing the matter. DR and Haiti are developing and in the case of the latter a failed state. You can not compare a relatively small and developing state with MANY unresolved social and economic problems of its own to take on the responsibilities of a failed nation-state!
The Haitian Question does have a possible solution: Globalize or Internationalize the solution!
If the international community would ever get around to putting as much debate and pressure-as they do on DR- to seeing 60 nations taking in on a sliding scale, 50,000 for the US, Europe, 20,000 for Canada, and the rest can manage say 10,000 to 500 per year admittance, the solution will have arrived by one or certainly so by two decades time!
Doing so will give Haitians a breathing period to get its nation-state organized and allow greater resources to come in via transfers.
"Written by: Trinitario809, 21 Aug 2012 10:13 AM
From: United States
Josean is yet criticise the Haitian government or its people.
Haitians can't do no wrong in this guy's eyes!
The Government and the Haitian Elites yes, the people No!
They are as much a victim of their elites and government as we are in DR!
It’s the ECONOMIES Stupid and the elites on both sides of the border that control them; we are ALL pawns in their greedy games!
ok.. Some very good points and some shockingly stupid in the condoning of murder....
guillermone
"OK Bernard you are obviously an advocate of undocumented Haitians"
I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I fail to see where BJP avocated undocumented workers anywhere (here or USA) ??
BJP made some very good points about the problem steming from the fact that the work is here in the DR if they can get here, it's because of the industries that hire them do and can get away with hiring more than the 15% law....
G.
" when you BRIBE an official or military at the border, you are NOT paying your way in (that maybe the Haitian school), you are committing a felony, and a crime that can command jail time."
G. Is not the worse crime from those that take the bribe? they are in a payed position to up hold the law of the country and by taking the bribe are they not commiting a greater offence and a disserive to all of the country?
BJP always makes some great points. However, the same crew here is also always quick to label him a Haitian with a HIDDEN AGENDA.
This is how much they refuse to see his points:
((
" when you BRIBE an official or military at the border, you are NOT paying your way in (that maybe the Haitian school), you are committing a felony, and a crime that can command jail time."
G. Is not the worse crime from those that take the bribe? they are in a payed position to up hold the law of the country and by taking the bribe are they not commiting a greater offence and a disserive to all of the country?
))
That's exactly why he was in Hiatus for such a long time.
escot"Generoso you are DEAD wrong. Haitians bring hard work to the table at low wages. Dominicans won't do he work Haitians do at any price and if you think they are displacing Dominicans you need your freakin head examined. ."
Biggest myth ever by the enemies of DR.
WHO WERE THE PEOPLE WHO USED TO BUILT THEIR COUNTRY ON THEIR BACK IN CONSTRUCTION 20 YEARS AGO? WHO USED TO BE THE PEOPLE WORKING IN THE AGRICULTURE 20 YEARS AGO?
I ASK MYSELF WAS I WATCHING ALIEN.
And yes you are exactly right, TAKING the bribe is just as much an offense if not even more so because they are being paid to do a job which involves protecting the sovereignty of the nation they claim to be so loyal to.
I am not saying that the Haitian problem is not a burden on the already meager resources of the Dominican Government, but as I have repeated it's partly their fault too. You can't be the victimizer and reap the benefits of a booming sugar trade built on cheap Haitian labor and then turn around and claim to be the victim. If you eat the dinner, you wash the dishes. The International community DOES have to help. But don't demonize Haitians only as if they all just Mission Impossible'd their way there. No, many of then paid to be there.
bernard"@stillhere - Thank you. Unfortunately in this forum community if you are not %100 for the Dominican cause regardless of any and everything you are labeled as an "enemy" regardless of how logical and reasonable your arguments may be. "
NO. The problem is that some foreigners like yourself plea ignorance over reality. When almost 35% of the population is composed of illegal people that only bring backward mentality to the country. Then people like you try to appease the problem as there is not an issue then it is not a secret that it is an agenda.
The problem with you BJP is the same complaint I have made about you from day day 1- Yes you make a lot of good and valid points, but we don't know really the theme behind your argument. What is it that you are arguing about?
If you and your associates are not able to see the big picture with relation to the massive Haitian influx, then I sure as hell can't see what is the unifying and dominant idea that you want to make about the undocumented in the DR.
Would you get to the point please and stop going around in circles. And say in perhaps one or two sentences, tell us briefly and clearly what you want to say?
Dominicans who possess some form of nationalist feelings for our country need to speak out against what can only be considered as peacefull invasion. Our values, way of life and national identity are at stake.
Haitians in DR can be a positive endeavor, but has to be done according to the law with porcedures that allow for accountability.
I know it is the fault of the Dominican authorities, i blame nobody else but our government for the Haitian exodus.
How many foreigners has we seen here supporting our government right to mass deportation of illegal Haitian? The worst of them here are the one that come from culture guilt countries that want to help the Haitian by giving us the entire problem.
JAMAICA doesnt want that problem. Heck they even deported the few Haitians that made it ashore after the earquake.
Bahamas PM stated at one time that the country will not take care of ONE SINGLE Haitian patient after the earthquake.
And the list go on with the black caribbean countries that do not want he Haitian pest.
Meanwhile (3) (3) (3) THREE THREE THREE MILLIONS HAITIANS WERE GIVEN FOOD, HEALTHCARE, EDUCATION FOR FREE. Yet we are the bad guy and God forbid if we Haitian deport a single Haitian because then we are labal a racist.
Why arent these "self hate" black in these island not put in their place by the NGO?
sweetbaby "
this happens hundreds of times a day around the country. work them 12 hours a day 7 days a week then report them to the police AFTER the work is done. Perhaps a few lynching would motivate payment"
Or motivate the government to do their job where this issue took place where the people of Santiago are sick and tired of this Haitian problem as they see the invading Haitians taking over our city little by little.
"I know it is the fault of the Dominican authorities, i blame nobody else but our government for the Haitian exodus."
Mr.hernandez5482,
I agree 100% but you must include the Haitian Government, as well as, the Haitian and Dominican Elites and now we are cooking with gas (no pun intended) at arriving at a humane solution to the violation of our immigration laws!
A company is exploiting cheap labor force, probably many even without legal permission, and then doesn't want to pay for their work.
How is the natural reaction?
That is what happened here.
Put these criminals (the ones that don't pay) to trial.
But here of course the Haitian issue is coming up immediately. Where ist the patriotism here? Why don't you employ Dominicans for higher wages if you don't want Haitians here?
Don't
Play
I
Kept
Telling
You
You
Don't
Play
With
Us
The rest of Us
Are
Just
Next
Door to you , you may have a million Haitians in DR but there are 10 more million of us in Haiti
We know , you're just running your mouths .a new generation of new Haitians now emerge and a new Haiti.
We have come a long way thanks to the diaspora mostly , they are big eye openers .
I love our President too .
Just
Remember
That
You
Don't
Want
To
P155
Haitians
Off
Not recommended
I will be back
MWA hahahaha
Am
Glad
The
Haitians
Are
Realizing
That it's not worth it in DR , dominicans themselves are poor ,
I expect record numbers of Haitians to return to Haiti , as Haiti heals and and gets better
A few hundreds came back last year , if they want real money they go to richer countries and earn dollars , euros ,etc .....
I
Watched a documentary on DR last night and boy , have I leaned more now
I know more of what to what to reply back when I hear bragging or insu lts towards Haitians .
I will be back
Bwa hahahahahaha
not
............
P&$0$
Hait4ever<<<-------------------------------the usual Haitian no wonder they are pest to the enire region.
Shut
Da
....
U
P
I will get back to you ,
Your motor mouth will soon run dry
You
........
C
L
O
W
N
Hati4ever I dont speak patua.
Too bad
I don't
" L IN GUA "
Neither
I will be back
You
........
P.........d0
@Vacanos
We speak creole , please don't confuse us for Jamaicans , they speak English Patois , we speak Creole , regardless if it means quite the same thing , we Haitians don't like o hear it we are Creoles , we left our finger prints all over Louisiana in the states , we share history with them and a lot were also in Haiti in the past , we have similarities with MARTINIQUE , Guadeloupe , and other smother islands even in Mauritius , they speak like us Haitians , I met a few Asians , who speak creole with Haitian accents , because over there they speak creole also their accents are more closer o Haitians than Martinique and Guadeloupe , but it's the same lanuage , lots of Haitian bands play there and they play in our country . We share the same culture almost like them , they speak like us but Mauiius whether they are Indians , blacks , or Arabs , their creole sounds like ours .alot of them go out with Haitians here in Canada .
Google
Won't show you all.
Your writings are a waist of page space and add nothing....
A clear message needs to be made about hiring none documented workers, fines and the appropriate punishments handed out to ALL braking the laws regarding this matter. From the person hiring, the person taking the bribes, the ones handing over the bribes, those here knowingly working with out papers and the ones avoiding the issues and quite happy to keep profiting from cheap illegal workers..
This will not change until people are jailed, kick out and corruption on both sides stops.
Jamaicans Are similar to Barbados , Trinidad ! Guyana , saint Kitts , Grenada ,and a few others
They stick with each other , Haiians did not understand then , that's why we were separated until now , the problem with why Haiians were urn down was earlier on , it was an old attitude from Jamaicans towards Haitians , but it's common now to see Haiians and Jamaicans hang out together after all we share the same cultures just different languages ,
You think if it really comes down to business , you think a Jamaican would let or watch someone be at up a Haitian or a Haiian a Jamican ,
They are brothers either way , lots of Jamaicans would defend. Ahitian or Guyanese or vice versa
Don't forget that ?
You Latinos would Hang with Latinos
, Jamican is poor they can't employ Haitians like richer countries .but under Martelly good relationships kept.
Bermuda and Bahamas are not like the rest , they are different people but still share the same roots and cul
More than a thousand words
It cut off the rest ....
Too bad you guys did not pick up the same culture as Martinique or Guadeloupe as they want nothing to do with you guys. If it werent for us Dominicans helping you guys imagine Somalia or Rwanda. It is a big burden on all of us. Dont you think?
The point is ONLY to show that ignorance, crime, and destructive practices can be found EVERYWHERE. Interesting that in domestic abuse case the same act is committed by (apparently) a Dominican AND a Haitian. But I guess it was only "backwards mentality" when the Haitian did it.
Be it Haitian, Dominican or American doing something injurious, it's ALL just different manifestations of social ills. But the idea that Haitians are single handedly bringing the moral and intellectual standards of the Dominican Republic down (as if it was just so "non-backwards") is just so ignorant and hypocritical that it makes my stomach churn.
"Be it Haitian, Dominican or American doing something injurious, it's ALL just different manifestations of social ills."
Or an American Congressman running to be a United States Senator in Missouri and former IBM engineer, Todd Akin, who said;
"It seems to me, first of all, from what I understand from doctors, that's really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down!"
Be fair, be realistic, be consistent.
" when you BRIBE an official or military at the border, you are NOT paying your way in (that maybe the Haitian school), you are committing a felony, and a crime that can command jail time."
G. Is not the worse crime from those that take the bribe? they are in a payed position to up hold the law of the country and by taking the bribe are they not commiting a greater offence and a disserive to all of the country?"
Bernard,
Legally speaking you stand in pure mud when you express this view. It has no basis in law! The payment of a bribe to illegally enter a foreign nation-state is an unlawful act. Punto y Fin.
Bernard stated:
"Well look at the immigration in the US with Mexicans as just ONE example. Do you see any major reform happening?? Nope...."
"Deportation numbers have risen under the Obama administration and are up from 190,000 in 2001 to nearly 400,000 per year in the last four years, according to the Center for American Progress. In the first six months of 2011, more than 46,000 parents of U.S. citizen children were deported."
Illegal Immigrant Deportations by the Numbers
By PAUL BEDARD
September 6, 2011
For all the grief President Obama has taken over his immigration policy—Republicans say he's a wimp, Democrats say he's not compassionate enough—one fact has emerged during his term so far. He's deported about 18 percent more illegal immigrants than former President George W. Bush did in his last two years in office. And he's on par to have given the boot to nearly 1.5 million immigrants by the time this term is done."
What were you saying Bernard?
Written by: Arcangel96,
"I think, in my humble opinion, that the large flow of illegal Haitian immigrants is due to the level of desperation of the poor masses in Haiti."
100%.
Now who's fault is that?
What Bernard, Josean, Stillhere, et al don't want to acknowledge is that THE EPICENTER and generator of all this mess is DIRECTLY located in Haiti. For it is there that too many people have been for many generation ill-housed, ill-schooled, ill-treated by their OWN people. Thus generating the vast majority of the people seeking disparately any way out of such meager opportunity environments. Go to the source of the troubles guys.
And yes, provide more law and order on both sides. All these DR firms who are doing unlawful practices should be heavily fined. And border troops, including higher up the chain of command, engaged in illegal activities fired and imprisoned. Two wrongs don't make a right. The gents are committing a subfallacy Tu Quoque.
Here's an example to illustrate the point further:
'This is a very clear example of the fallacy. The terrorists tried to justify bombing the Pentagon on the grounds that the Pentagon had unjustifiably bombed Iraq/Syria. The gist of the fallacy is contained in the last sentence, which claims that the wrongness of the Pentagon's actions justified a similar wrong: "Wrong + wrong = right."
But attempting to justify committing a wrong on the grounds that someone else is guilty of another wrong is clearly a Red Herring, because if this form of argument were cogent, one could justify anything?always assuming that there is another wrong to point to, which is a very safe assumption.'
@ fille d'Ayti you may have 10-12 million people, well we got 10-12 million guns. You guys are a long way from matching us militarily. You need to stop threatening us with stones and machetes in a gunfight you imbecil.
@PapaBUT....T.....LI.....C......KI...N...G doc
Mauritian Creole is the lingua franca of Mauritius. Mauritius, formerly a British colony, has kept English as its official language, although French is more widely spoken. Mauritians tend to speak Creole at home and French in the workplace. Creole is a French based language. French and English are spoken in schools. However, although a large percentage of Mauritians are of Indian descent, they primarily speak Creole, which is their mother tongue in the sense that their ancestors along with those of African, European and Chinese descent helped build the creole languages together centuries ago, when Mauritius was the merging place of peoples from different continents who together founded a nation with its own culture and history.
I went to school with few Mauritians , some were Asians Indians and other , they spoke like us , because their country is far , some words are not the same but 7 out 10 remains
Lots of Haitians don't know of this , they think it's just Martinique , Quadelouoe only , it's depends on who they are , some are aware , however , people from Seychelles can communicate with Haitians also , because they speak creole , The people from Saint Vincent as well
You think it's to make Haiti big ?
I am not you , remember that , money I spend on wine alone could probably pay your rent
You're probably a CHUBBY DOMINICAN" 0f 26 year olds
Please don't comeback and tell me that it's because you eat well and Haitians don't have , if you do that , I will certainly put you in your place "Dominican Punk"
You probably fed on fu....... Chicken all the time , it's cheap , so you have a feast
@Papadoc
By the way Bands from Guadeloupe and Martinique play in Haiti multiple times a year and our bands play in their countries any Haitian or Martiniquains or Guadeloupean could tell you that , not like you ll get to talk to any of them knowing the Sh....... Life style you probably capable of going only to cheap clubs and bars , while I speak Farnk Sinatra ,Piano ,Lounges Hotels , Terraces , Galas , fashion shows ,
I ve catered to gals , fashion Shows , Hotels etc ........
You are tasteless compare to me " BOY "
You said , good thing the Haitian workers did not succeed and that Dominicans would retaliate
You know why , because it's a group of 50 Haitians against thousands ,
How many times that I must remind you little Dominican c0 wards that you can not fight us ?
Believe you me if this was to get big and retail lite you d have to deal with the entire island next door
You have millions who d just come cross the border by foot and fight you
"Boy "
You don't wanna start Sh...... With Haitians , you can only hurt us if we are 20 and encircled by 300 ,
Learn that "Dominican Boy "
Please stop using the term racism , Dominicans keep forgetting they are just white wannabes who try to pass on what whites have passed on to them to a nother minority .
The word is prejudice not racism , stop wishing you were white .stop copy to be accepted
You
Bunch
Of
House
N..........
The mentality still lives within you .
Furthermore
I heard
Some
Dogs
Barking
I will come back later and deal with their disrespects like User ( guillermone ) and I think 2 more dominican punks
I just stopped by to deal with that wanna be Haitian
Pu......y
Hole
. (Papadoc)
When the cat is away its always like that
I
Will
Be
Back
Later
And
Deal
With
Some
People
For( LATER ) is always (GREATER)
MWA hahahahahahahaahahahaha
Us
And
See
Your army ain't Sh..........
Nor are your people , even the hardcore crimi Alls
Someone that sell dru g s only have the contacts not the muscle , because he only alk on a cell phone and drve
Test
Us
And
See
MWA Hahahahaaha
I hope it would be the entire island too
MWA hahahahahahahaahahahaha
Come
On
If
You
Think you're bad , give us that chance
We
Haitians
Would
Love to
See
That
That would be the end for you
Bl........d
Would reach you to your knees .we don't care how old
Haitians
Don't
Play
Keep that in mind .
Bwa
Haha
Haha
Haha
Haha
For
Example
We
A
Group of
50
Haitians
Did
That
On
Your
Soil
But
50
Dominicans
Would
Be too scared to try that in Haiti .
Don't
.........
With
Us
Don't
Keep
Pushing
The
Envelope
Nor should you keep putting wood the already lit fire
We'd love an opportunity just to let out what we ve held back for decades for you
Just try
@venganzaderafael
The
People
Will
Unite
And
Kick
Them
Out
Bet you thought , you had me there
Right ?
W
R
O
N
G
You
.......
P...55........yeater
@venganzaderafael
Puertoricans
Might do
The
Same
And
Americans
As
Well
To
Your
People
And besides , what way of life ?
MWA HAHAAHAHAHA
Funny they re saying the very same about you
Quiet
Little
YellowDominican "boy"
I will eventually get back
Ou called me a chi mp
Yet
Your country is referred to as " The Ba an .....a Rebubl.....
Aren't
You
The
Same
Ones
Saying
That
Haiti
Has
No
Trees
Than you therefore have all the jungles
Funny isn't it?
, you're no match for me , regardless how you shape your English ,
Not
That
You
Wouldn't
Wanna
Possess
My
Land
You wish you could
But
Can't
You can't possess nor buy Haiti
You
......
To occupy us , you couldn't
You don't have the money
Nor can your military can control Haiti
Nor
Could
You
Ever
But
At
Least
We
Could
Say
We
Once
Did
MWA
Hahahahahaha
Once again
You' ve been punked by
YOur own comments as usual
You think it's by how mean you say things that will humble me like your Dominican friend user (Papadoc) trying hard to do so ?
MWA
Hahaha
You
Haven't seen
Nothing yet
MWA HAHAHAHAHA
MWA hahahaha
MWA hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaahahahaha
You called my people sugar cane cutters
Don't
Forget that a Lawnmower isn't most likely not a university graduate either ?
You
......
Do.....min....can
Punk
" What Bernard, Josean, Stillhere, et al don't want to acknowledge is that THE EPICENTER and generator of all this mess is DIRECTLY located in Haiti."
aaarrrr I think we all understand and have written it more than once..
Me."This will not change until people are jailed, kick out and corruption on both sides stops."
And you can go to other parts of this site to see more about my thoughts on the mess next door... It is one part of the large problem...
"G. Is not the worse crime from those that take the bribe? they are in a payed position to up hold the law of the country and by taking the bribe are they not commiting a greater offence and a disserive to all of the country?"
Dr A.. you may want to read more.. as it was me that posted it not BJP...
The fact that so many come across having payed bribes (Haitian or Dominicans with trucks full) shows that the real need is to stop those taking the money, they only pay the bribe because they know they can...
venganzaderafael,... just don't bother with this (I'll be nice and say) "person" Just don't read it, reply to it or even consider a word of it to be anything more than the drivile it is..